Sex Abuse & Paige Patterson's Blind Eye & Deaf Ear
The Baptist world has heard very little from Paige Patterson in recent months. Maybe that's because of the 10 million dollar sex discrimination lawsuit filed against him in federal court by former professor, Sheri Klouda. Or perhaps Patterson was overwhelmed with all of the national attention Southwestern Seminary received upon the unveiling of his plan to keep women in the kitchen with the Mrs. Homemaker Degree.
Whatever the case, Paige Patterson has broken his silence and responded to allegations that he ignored allegations of sexual misconduct by a preacher friend now accused of sending lewd Mark Foley-esque text messages to minors.
The story goes like this:
The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (aka SNAP) recently called on Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary to suspend its president, Paige Patterson and investigate newspaper reports from 1991 that indicate that Patterson turned a blind eye 17 years ago to allegations of sexual misconduct against Darrell Gilyard. Gilyard has been described as a one-time Patterson protege who is now accused of being a serial predator. Read about that here.
Here's a few snippets from Patterson's response:
Nearly two decades ago, I was neither an investigator nor a judge but the president of a small Bible college. I certainly did not have resources available to me to pursue the case, yet I did all that I could within my means to discover the truth when allegations concerning Mr. Gilyard were brought to my attention. Until such time as I could ascertain that Darrell Gilyard was in fact guilty as alleged, I could not make any charge against him...According to SNAP, despite what Patterson says, media accounts indicate that in 1991 Patterson "knew of reports that a high-profile African-American pastor had sexually assaulted and exploited female college students and church members, but that he kept quiet about it and instructed the students 'to refrain from speaking' about it."
Once I had investigated the matter and was able to substantiate that Mr. Gilyard was guilty, I got him to confess that guilt publicly; I expelled him from the Criswell College so that he was never allowed to complete his degree there; and I moderated the business meeting at Victory Baptist Church in Richardson, Texas, the night he, in response to my insistence, resigned his position as pastor.
A quick look at 6 pertinent articles from The Dallas Morning News in 1991 reveals this very public information much of which is taken verbatim from the articles:
A significant number of women at Victory Baptist Church in Richardson, Texas accused their pastor Darrell Gilyard of sexual abuse. One said Gilyard had sex with her in the pastor's study. Another said she received lewd phone calls and another said Gilyard raped her. One woman who said she had had a long-term affair with Gilyard said her phone calls requesting a meeting with Patterson were not returned. Patterson's secretary told the woman that unless she had proof, he wouldn't see her. Other women abused by Gilyard recalled meeting with church officials at both Victory Baptist and First Baptist churches who drilled them with questions about their emotional stability and their relationships with other men. Officials at First Baptist knew of the allegations of sexual misconduct four years before Gilyard's resignation yet they did not believe those allegations and continued to recommend Gilyard.
Gilyard was Patterson's prize student who he described as one of the "most brilliant men in the pulpit." Patterson told a DMN reporter that "we were dealing with a man of special gifts and talents. I was unwilling to call anyone guilty until I had demonstrable evidence these allegations were true. Patterson demanded that the women provide real proof such as photographs, videotapes or lab tests despite the fact that Gilyard had been removed from his previous church, Concord Missionary Baptist Church, in 1987 amid allegations of sexual improprieties. An administrator at Concord stated that "around 25" members of the 1,500 member church made sexual allegations against Gilyard.
After being fired from Concord, Gilyard gained employment as assistant pastor for Hilltop Baptist Church in Norman, Oklahoma. He stayed only a year but soon after leaving allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced at Hilltop. Two women told church officials that Gilyard had made sexual advances toward them and a third woman confessed to an affair with Gilyard. The senior pastor took this information to Patterson. Patterson did nothing.
In 1989, Gilyard pastored Shiloh Baptist in Garland, Texas where allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced again. Patterson met with the women. According to one observer, the discussion did not focus on details of the allegations but instead delved into the women's pasts.
More from Gilyard's time at VBC in Texas: One woman set up a meeting with Patterson. Upon arriving at his office, she was confronted by Gilyard and Gilyard's wife and attorney. Patterson told the woman to refrain from speaking to anyone about the situation. He told her that unless she came back with two witnesses or proof that something had happened, not to come back. Another woman called Paige Patterson and recounted a story about having sex with Gilyard in the sanctuary. After Gilyard's forced resignation, Don Simpkins, a pastoral counselor who had been involved in several discussions with women abused by Gilyard, stated to the Dallas Morning News that he believes allegations against Gilyard were covered up by Victory Baptist, First Baptist and Paige Patterson.
This is a rather simple story. Check out the past media accounts from 1991. While Patterson claims to not have had the resources to investigate, he took the time to discredit the abused and paint Gilyard as the victim. The facts show that Gilyard couldn't keep his mouth shut and his zipper zipped at each and every church that he pastored. The man may have sexually abused up to 25 women at one church alone. Patterson knew of the allegations all along. Did he turn a blind eye? Yes. Did he turn a deaf ear? Absolutely.
Patterson had the opportunity to bring down Gilyard up to 4 years before he was fired. Everyone knew. Where there's alot of smoke, there has to be a little fire. For Patterson to believe that all these accusations were false is akin to the loony toon who still believes OJ didn't do it and the King of Pop has never "touched" a little boy.
Too bad it has taken 17 years for someone to call Paige Patterson to task.
Labels: Darrell Gilyard, Paige Patterson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
posted by Big Daddy Weave at 12:51 AM
44 Comments:
From Southwestern Seminary to the SBC to the IMB, Baptist leaders continue to protect sexual predators and ensure their continued opportunity to exploit women and children sexually. My wife and I are both victims of serial abusers who were, and continue to be, employed by the SBC and all efforts to bring their evil deeds to light are met with a "hush-hush" attitude. I think it's high time that the SBC admit that they do, in fact, have the power and obligation to protect those who trust the clergy in their employ. The claim that they cannot keep track of serial abusers is pathetic. If a pastor in a SB church were to begin preaching evolution from the pulpit, you can be sure that he would be disciplined and never allowed to work in a Baptist church again. Thank you for your efforts.
7:54 AM
What kind of proof do they really think we as victims have? Do we carry around a video camera hoping they will come on to us, or tape record phone conversations, or better yet a physical sample from someone being molested or raped by their Pastor? Are they kidding? How much proof do you need anyway when the Pastor admits to it? Then we are supposed to go a step further and prove it? It should never happen in the church, not once, not twice and certainly not the 4th and 5th time in different churches. That is the point of all of this! When they are found out in one church, they should not only step down from the pulpit, but then the authorities should be called in IMMEDIATELY (not after a month long church investigation. You state Mr.Patterson that you did not have the means to deal with such an issue - isn't that the point. So instead of atleast encouraging the victims to go to the authorities and let them investigate (or take it a step further, leader, and call them yourself) you decide to watch him walk away. Then, when he pops up at another church, remain silent, warn no one, and just hope he doesn't repeat his already repeated pattern.
You are looking worse and worse in the public eye. Just admit you made really bad decisions in this that you will regret the rest of your life, apologize to the victims for not having the wisdom in what to do. That sir, is called taking responsibility - that is what true leadership is all about. It is fine to hope and pray someone changes, and to believe them innocent at first allegation, but after that it is time to call in for help! God calls us to this in II Timothy 3:1-17 and especially your role II Tim. 4:1-5.
Please read these scriptures and pray for wisdom. It is time to speak some truth!
8:06 AM
Thank you for this post. I long for the day when Baptist churches have zero-tolerance for pastor-predators.
10:40 AM
Jerry Vines is the one who should be responding, not Paige Patterson. Vines pastored FBC Jacksonville, about one mile from Gilyard's church and Vines knew that Gilyard had abused one of Vines' own young sheep. A member of Vine's congregation. Yet, Vines still preaches every year at Gilyard's church, including just a few months ago. (See jerryvines.com for his preaching schedules.)
If anyone had any moral or ethical duty to expose this predator, or at least disassocate from him, it was Jerry Vines! Why not call him and let's see if he agrees with Patterson saying Gilyard was not fit to pastor.
By preaching in Gilyard's church, Vines sent a strong message that Gilyard was repentant, fit to be a pastor, and could be trusted. The sheep in both congregations had no choice but to believe that if Jerry Vines thinks Gilyard is to be trusted, than we can all trust him. And what about Tom Messer and Bob Gray...two others Vines has supported in Jacksonville who abused or covered abuses of children. Shame on Jerry Vines!
10:58 AM
Thank you for your coverage of this problem. Too many voices of clergy abuse victims have been silenced, belittled, shamed, and met with uncaring, angry and even apathetic attitudes. God has heard every cry and felt every tear that has fallen from their eyes. I am baffled why Southern Baptist ministers think it is ok to verbally, emotionally and sexually abuse another human being. Is it because some SBC ministers think women are not on an equal plane with them, and must be subservient and submissive? If Mrs. Patterson had been the victim, would Dr. Patterson have acted the same and asked for photos, witnesses, and taped conversations? If clergy sexual abuse is as Dr. Patterson said, one of the greatest problems in the modern era, is it not time for the SBC to take action to stop it? Doing nothing about it is not going to solve the problem.
11:02 AM
Men who collude against the innocent are themselves just as guilty as the perpetrator (Ex. 23:1-9; Lev 20:4,5; I Cor. 5:9-13; I Thess. 4:6-8). Patterson, in protecting his sexual predator friend, has placed himself on the same level as the sexually immoral of which God has warned. He is at least partially guilty for the sexual exploitations, molestations, and rapes as his friend Gilyard because he did not protect the women who came to him for help. Patterson had the fiduciary and God-given duty to help the victims, and hold Gilyard accountable—which would have also helped Gilyard as well as the victims. Instead, Gilyard went on to hurt many more women and girls. Patterson is at least partially responsible for the women and girls Gilyard has harmed in the last 17 years! Patterson is a disgrace to humanity, and a sore blight to the cause of Christ, along with all other Christian leaders of any church or denomination or Bible college or para-church organization (not just those affiliated with the SBC). I wish to thank Big Daddy Weave for standing against clergy sexual abuse, and call on other god-fearing Christian men to do the same.
11:09 AM
This case just goes to show how when action is not taken against clergy abuse, it is allowed to perpetuate and continue in church after church, destroying life after life. Silence by other ministers who have known about Gilyard but have not acted on that knowledge must accept responsibility for their part in the damage that has been done, learn from it and take steps to keep it from being repeated. This is not the time to keep secrets. Turning the blind eye will not fix the clergy abuse problems nor heal the wounds of victims.
11:19 AM
"This is not the first time I have heard this. You have done well to not talk about it. I will keep it confidential." These are the words that were said to me when I reported to the senior pastor the reasons we left our previous church. Does this sound like a dialogue to stop clergy abuse?
12:15 PM
Speaking of covering up secrets...Does anyone know if LifePointe Church in Carmel, Indiana has knowledge of their new pastor's past? Woodie Cumbie is an admitted homosexual, yet leads that church, and its youth. I believe he has some connection to Johnny Hunt. Which if true, again implicates the "big boys" at the SBC in cover ups and failing to protect the sheep. Hunt, Patterson and Vines are ALL coming to FBC Jax at the invitation of Mac Brunson, who himself has raised many questions about his financial abuses since he arrived. None of these guys are held accountable and will take what they want from the sheep. Which is always sex or money or both!
12:15 PM
sharon's rose - why focus on Paige Patterson as being a disgrace. Mac Brunson at FBC Jax has given a platform to Johnny Hunt (covering up Woodie Cumbie homosexuality), Jerry Vines (preaches annually at Gilyard's church) and Paige Patterson at the upcoming FBC Jax pastor's conference. Mac accepted a $307,000 gift of land for "love and affection" only 2 weeks after arriving in Jacksonville. When questions were raised, members were silenced and a discipline committee was formed. Should be an interesting pastor's conference as these men all try to defend each other and attack the congregations that dare ask for accountability. (check out fbcjax.com and click on the pastor's conference link for a list of the usual suspects.)
12:19 PM
I realize Dr. Patterson has made some mistakes that he needs to deal with (who has not)but what more could he have really done? Did you want him to have Gilyard castrated in the parking lot of the church?
Many of you were not around then. This cannot be placed at the feet of Dr. Patterson alone. Dr. Patterson did everything he could do and much more than most that had as much or more influence with Gilyard at the time.
cb
2:32 PM
Patterson did all he could? Did he go to the deacons/elders of this guy's church?
Did he stop contact until this man stepped down from ministry?
Did he warn other SBC pastors about this man when they spoke at his church? (Of course he knows all these men!!)
Patterson had/has a soapbox and did not use it and YOU know it.
Big Daddy, I totally disagree with your politics and theology but you are RIGHT ON with this. I don't care if the perp is a conservative or a liberal. I only care about truth and the victims. I only care that these 'ministers' are disqualified and those who harbor them and do not speak out publicly are disqualified from ministry, too.
They care more about these men than they do innocent victims.
(milestones?)
Why is it that victims can expect more justice and compassion from the secular world than the church?
Strange, huh?
3:17 PM
Anony,
First you need to give your name you coward.
Secondly, you don't know what you are talking about relating to this matter.
Back when this stuff was happening it was not with children it was with grown women with as much a sinful nature as had Gilyard.
As far as the present. Dr. Patterson has no control over what Gilyard is doing. They were not in contact in recent years. Gilyard would not hear Dr. Patterson's counsel and the churches he went to would not hear it either.
cb
3:37 PM
cb...too bad as a pastor that you are calling people names. You're a coward for not telling us your full name and church name so we can let your church know you are calling people names on a blog, and defending the actions of a man who preys on women in his church.
I'll call you a few names: a foolish coward pastor. That's what you are. Don't call me a coward, because here's my name: Jerry Gerber. Got it?
Here's where you're wrong pal: Paige Patterson and Jerry Vines DID have a responsibility to warn churches even though Gilyard's victims in Texas may not have been minors. Gilyard by his own admission...ARE YOU LISTENING C.S. SCOTT PASTOR? he admitted to HAVING SEX WITH WOMEN IN HIS CHURCH WHO CAME TO HIM FOR COUNSELING.
Do you understand that? Can you comprehend? That makes him a predator. He used his position of power to get sex from women. Sick. Disgusting. Its also disgusting that Jerry Vines went to Gilyard's church in the last few years to preach. Sick. Sad. And you're a coward pastor. Give us your name, and church name.
3:53 PM
anonymous - You're right. The focus should not only be on Patterson, but on all of the men who didn't do the right thing re: Gilyard...and it should be on all of the men who do so little which amounts to nothing in stopping sexual predators in Christian institutions and churches. Patterson is not the only president of a Bible college who became aware of sexual abuse and did the wrong thing.
cb scott - By his own admission, Patterson was not qualified or prepared to handle the situation with Gilyard. He should have called the police. The allegations the women brought were of a criminal nature. Castrating him in the parking lot would be an unkind and cruel act of violence, and would have solved nothing in helping Gilyard's victims, or preventing him from harming others in the future. I can't even believe you would make such a remark.
3:58 PM
Anyone who reads even just one of the Dallas Morning News articles can get a pretty clear picture of what happened. In addition to numerous college students and church women, there were also a couple pastors and a pastoral counselor who tried to get Patterson's attention.
And as for cb scott's calling anonymous a coward...I simply question whether most Southern Baptist leaders have a clue about the difference between courage and cowardice. What's telling here is that the people who are trying to clean up the mess left by Vines and Patterson are a courageous mother named Tiffany Croft and 2 brave kids, a 14 yr-old and a 16-yr old. Over a 17-year period, it wasn't the big Southern Baptist leaders who led the way in trying to protect people. It was these small ordinary "Davids" and their families. Kudos to THEM!
4:09 PM
cb scott - you are sorely misunformed about sexual abuse, especially clergy sexual abuse. Your outlook on this issue is dangerous. That Giyard's victims have been women (actually college students) does not mean the women are guilty of sexual sin. Gilyard was in a position of power over them. For that reason, it is impossible for the women to consentually participate with him. The women were sexually abused because it is an abuse of his power/authority over them. A Christian leader (pastor, prof at a Christian college, elder, missionary, counselor, etc.) should NEVER use/abuse their power to be involved in sexual activity with anyone in the laity. You really need to be better informed about clergy sexual abuse.
4:55 PM
Christa,
I have not been down the road you have, but I have been down the road with many people like you and I can say scars are scars and it is very possible mine are as deep as yours. A coward is still a coward and I do know the difference and the anony is one. So don't go self-righteous on me if you don't mind.
You were not around the situation back then. Some of us were.
What more could have Dr. Patterson done back there was my original question. When he found out the truth of Darrell's situation he expelled him from school.
He moderated the business meeting at the church where Darrell was serving as pastor. He had already insisted Darrell resign as pastor. The women involved were not children. They were exercising their sinful nature as was Darrell Gilyard.
As I asked earlier, what more do you think Dr. Patterson could have done? Should he have taken him out in the parking lot and castrated him?
Christa, I am sure you know there is a difference between sexual abuse and adultry and fornication between grown people.
Dr. Patterson could do not more at the time than he did. He cut Gilyard off when he refused to do the right thing and step down and he was not silent about it. Dr. Patterson let it be known what Darrell had done.
I am no Dr. Patterson groupie. He has done some very stupid things in recent years. He needs to deal with them. He is not responsible for Darrell Gilyard. The Gilyard story was no secret back then all the SBC knew it. The church that called him after his first resignation is far more responsible than is Dr. Patterson. Dr. Patterson is just an easy target.
Jerry Gerber,
Are you related to the SBC in any way? Obviously not. I am easy to find. BTW, I did not call you a name, but I will be glad to do so if you would come to Birmingham and look me up.
Anony who is also a coward whining about violence. As for castration; what would be so wrong with it for people who abuse children? It is you who is the coward. You run your mouth, but you have never fought the fight. You are nothing more than an armchair quarterback that probably would not cross the street and put your silly life on the line to stop a rapist, or baby killer or murderer which makes you more of the problem than the resolution. When was the last time you faced gun and knife to stop the animals who hurt and abuse children?
Another thing. Dr. Patterson is not Jerry Vines and he is certainly not accountable for him.
What has happened is wrong and it will take harder men than a bunch of Anony boys to stop it.
As I said earlier, Dr. Patterson has done some really stupid things, but he is not responsible for Darrell Gilyard. In all truth, it is more probable that Anony, gutless, males that cry wolf, but never draws a bead on one that is far more responsible for the Darrells of this world.
cb
5:22 PM
Last Anony,
I can asure you I have cared for more victims and dealt with far more abusers than you. You know nothing.
....But that is not the issue. This post made Dr. Paige Patterson responsible for Darrell Gilyard. He is not and that is the issue. If all you Anony boys and girls want to come to Birmingham and swap war stories I will buy the coffee. We will see who has and who has not dealt with this matter and to what degree of effectiveness we did our "dealings."
cb
cb
5:29 PM
cb scott hit the nail on the head about one thing he said: "The Gilyard story was no secret back then all the SBC knew it."
Doesn't that just say it all?
8:13 PM
Christa,
The point is that Dr. Patterson was not hiding anything.
He put Darrell out of school. He moderated the business meeting of a church of which he was not a member. If you understand Southern Baptist churches you know that is a rare thing. He made no secret of what Darrell did. It was known. Dr. Patterson made it known. Another church called him anyway.
What else could Dr. Patterson do?
Christa, you are not the only person to fight against this kind of thing. I do not know your whole story (only parts) but I do know you hurt your own cause sometime. It may be due to a lack of understanding as to Southern Baptist churches. I don't know. I do know that there are people in the SBC who care and have risk much and all for people hurt as you were. It has cost them dearly.
I also know many have gotten by with true abuse such as what happened to you. I also know that not every wrongful relationship between men and women was or is abuse in Christian circles. Actually a great deal of it is just plain sinfulness and rebellion against God.
I have not walked in your shoes. I have not lived your story. I have walked with people that have similar stories to yours. I do have some understanding of the harm done to you. I can assure you had I been there and known of your circumstance I would have made a difference (a big one). That is no brag. That is just fact.
The bottom line is that Dr. Patterson is not responsible for Darrell Gilyard. Darrell Gilyard is responsible for Darrell Gilyard and so are the churches that called him as pastor after the truth was made known and the person that did more than anyone else to make that truth known was Dr. Paige Patterson.
I wish you had not been hurt as you were. I wish no child ever had to go through the kind of thing you have. But the truth is, until the people of this nation stop playing games with truly evil individuals it will not stop. I have looked into the eyes of pure evil. It does not have a soul. There are just a few ways to really deal with it and this nation does not have the grit for it anymore. I say that based on what I have seen and experienced. It is the thing of which nightmares are made.
cb
9:10 PM
cb scott said: "Until the people of this nation stop playing games with truly evil individuals it will not stop."
I would say: "Until the leaders of this denomination stop playing games with individuals who do truly evil deeds, those deeds will not stop."
Einstein said: "The world is too dangerous to live in - not because of the people who do evil but because of the people who sit and let it happen.”
Questions Southern Baptists should be asking themselves are these:
How many women would it take before Patterson would give credence to their reports of sexual assaults and abuse, and would consider the reports to be substantiated? Would 50 be enough? 100?
Absent a minister’s confession, would Patterson require multiple eyewitnesses? Male eyewitnesses? How likely is that?
Was it enough that Patterson allowed Gilyard to confess to “adulterous affairs” after so many women and college students reported sexual assaults?
Was it enough to get Gilyard out of the SBC, or should Southern Baptist leaders have also taken steps to warn congregations outside the SBC – i.e., the people in the pews of Gilyard’s next Florida congregation?
If Vines preached from Gilyard's Florida pulpit, what message does that send? What message does it send out when a former Southern Baptist president preaches from the pulpit of an accused serial predator? To the ordinary person in the congregation, wouldn't it appear that Southern Baptist leadership was giving credibility to Gilyard?
What will Southern Baptist leadership do to assure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again? How many more people will be hurt before Southern Baptist leadership takes proactive steps similar to what other faith groups are already doing?
6:12 AM
Christa,
Once again, Dr. Patterson is not Jerry Vines nor is he responsible for him. Dr. Patterson did what he could in the Gilyard situation. That may not have been as much as some would have done. I will grant you that. Yet, it was far more than most would have done.
But,....you do not hear that.
It seems you do not hear because you do not want to hear and that is what hurts your cause......and quite frankly, that hurts me because I know your cause is righteous.
I am sorry you went through what you did, but you need to learn that not every Baptist minister is your enemy and not every woman who gets into sexual sin is a victim.
I do know Dr. Paige Patterson is not an enemy to abused people and history will verify that.
You believe what you want and I guess you will.
cb
7:55 AM
I know that all Baptist ministers are not the same, and I certainly know that they aren't all enemies. There have been some Baptist ministers working behind the scenes, and a few others who have worked publicly. In the context of many others that I encounter in dealing with this issue, these men wind up seeming to me like exceptions, but they are exceptions that I do not ever forget about. I know they are out there, and I am grateful for them.
I also do not view Southern Baptist officials as enemies. Nor do I view the many ministers who make known their opposition as enemies. Nor do I view as enemies the ones who say hurtful, and sometimes downright hateful, things. I DO view them as being blind to the extent of this problem, to the horror of the harm that it causes, and to the urgent need for proactive measures to more effectively combat it.
8:32 AM
Christa,
OK. That is fair. Not all ministers are enemies. Thank you for saying that.
Now, let me say that some are, not many, but some and that is too many.
You said some are blind and you do not count them as enemies. That is good because some simply are blind.
Now, let me say some are blind because they choose to be blind. It makes things easy. They like easy. They like their jobs. They like their comfort. They are cowards of the highest degree. They do not stand and probably never will.
There are others that will stand as they learn and that is where you can be effective.
Also, I am right when I say "until the people of this nation stop playing games with truly evil individuals it will not stop."
Christa, abuse is national and global in scope. It is in the market-place of the world this war must be waged.
My great fear is that in America we have lost the grit to deal with true evil. That was even evident in this comment thread and many others I have read.
Just remember, not everyone is against your cause and I know, for a fact, Dr. Patterson has done much to help abused people.
Is he always right about things? Is the way he goes about doing all things without flaw? No is the answer on both counts.
Is he ignorant as to some things about abuse? Yes he is, but he is no enemy. He is no coward. He will stand, even when he does not really know how to do so he will stand. He will do something, which is far more than many.
cb
9:06 AM
If the victims had been male, would Paige Patterson's responses have been different? Would he have told the victim to not come back until he has taped conversations, photos, or eye witnesses? Would a former SBC president still preach from the predator's pulpit?
11:04 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
12:24 AM
cb: I am surprised and disheartened by the remarks here. Paige Patterson(according to the article) wrote a speech which for Mr. Gilyard which was set aside to give his own words. It seems not enough was done. Not near enough.The police should have been called as was mentioned. To dismiss him is to free him to go somewhere else, which he did. I hear you blaming these women for something I cannot see blaming them for. They were the victims here, not Paige or Mr. Gilyard. I understand you may have been around during that time, but wrong is wrong and ministers are held to a higher standard. For me Paige's statement which Aaron gave in his post said a lot.
Christa Brown is the one who is showing courage. She has brought a lot to the public attention that otherwise would not have been known. She has been fired at and her concerns minimized. Until we face this among other things wrong, we are going to get nowhere.
12:28 AM
Debbie,
I blamed Darrell Gilyard and no other person and for you to said I did is false.
Be angry or disappointed with Dr. Patterson for other things if you want, but this is way overboard.
Debbie, of all the things we have discussed over the last two years of which we have agreed and disagreed this one does disappoint me greatly that you would say what you are saying.
Also, I have never said Christa did not have courage. I did say she hurts her cause sometimes and she does. That saddens me also for her cause is righteous and you know I know it is.
Dr Patterson did tell other churches. They just did not listen.
Debbie, did you really read all of what I wrote or did you just want to go after Dr. Patterson and avoid all of the facts and pick out the weak points to build a straw-man as do so many others in easy situations of this nature? You are better than this, Debbie.
cb
6:50 AM
Back when this stuff was happening it was not with children it was with grown women with as much a sinful nature as had Gilyard.
I read all that you said CB. I also read the above. The law should have been involved. I also read the article where Paige refused to see these women until they had further proof. I can tell you that proof is something a predator usually does not leave. They are smart. I also read where Paige said he was the President of a college and not an investigator, which I know not to be true. Paige has resources available to him to investigate. I'm not after Paige except for transparency. I want us as Southern Baptists to be cleaner than we are. It seems that he has power only when he wants to use it. More should have been done in my opinion. If I can have something done about a predator, I'm sure anyone with power can. Read Tiffany's comment.
12:25 PM
cb: I do respect you and you know this, but you say that I am better than that. As a Christian woman, I am better than to believe more couldn't have been done. I was around before there were laws to protect women and lost two jobs due to standing up to sexual predators who happened to be my bosses, thereby losing my jobs. The churches that didn't listen are just as much to blame as Paige. It's also interesting that during that time nothing was publicly reported. At least this is the first time I have heard of it and it happened 17 years ago. I would have made it very public, going to the papers. Did Paige do this, or was it all done behind closed doors?
12:32 PM
Debbie,
There is nothing on this earth you can tell me about predators, nothing. Period.
Also, you do not know that much about Dr. Paige Patterson.
I stand by my statement. I am sorry your hatred for all things "Patterson" has tainted your reasoning. Only now do I believe you really do dislike him so.
May God forgive me if I have added to or caused any of it.
Dr. Patterson has most certainly done some stupid and sinful things, but to say he is in any way responsible for Darrell Gilyard is just a lie.
This is a shame in all ways, but it is certainly a shame to throw it at Dr. Patterson's feet as if he encouraged such behavior. He was one of the few who really did anything to stop it. Did he do everything he may have been able to do? Maybe not, but he did what he knew to do and that is all that can be expected and it was far more than what others did.
Debbie, you are wrong here. Actually, you are far more wrong than Christa. It is not hard to understand why she would feel as she does considering what she went through.
I just do not understand your motivation here. It is not for me to try to determine it for I am not God, but I do see the result and I do say you are wrong, no matter your motivation.
I am done with this. Also, I can't help but wonder why I am the only one saying you are wrong. It just proves my belief we are a convention full of cowards and that is one of the reasons Christa went through the hell she did along with many others.
This I know, Patterson was not and is not a coward. He is stupid, arrogant and ignorant sometimes, but no coward ever.
cb
12:54 PM
Debbie, To answer you question about Dr. Patterson making it public. Yes he did. He even moderated a business in Darrell's church and told the whole world he told Darrell to resign and not go to another church.
I would have answered this before but did not see the question. This time Patterson was one of the only stand up guys around in a time when others were running for cover.
He does not deserve this.
cb
12:58 PM
cb: I am not out gunning for Paige Patterson.But the man is seeming to be not all that he claims to be. What I hate is cover ups and lying. As a Southern Baptist woman I am concerned. I want us to clean up because I hate the dirt that is being discovered. I would have no problem with him whatsoever if some of the things that have surfaced in the last year or so had not surfaced. There is corruption in the SBC, there is power that has been used in a wrong way. Paige is not the only one. I am looking for some transparency and the ladies who were the victims stories do not match up to Paige's. Someone is not telling the truth.
1:40 PM
Debbie,
Did Dr Patterson do all that he could do? Probably not, but hindsight is usually 20/20.
If you go back and read the account from the 90's in the Dallas newspapers then you will see that Dr. Patterson's story is still the same. You will find that he did expel Mr. Gilyard and did counsel him to resign his church and presided over the business meeting of the church. He also recommended that the Gilyards seek counseling and restoration.
It appears that Mr. Gilyard chose not to take Dr. Patterson's advice. It is also evident that Mr. Gilyard's situation was not covered up or swept under the rug. It was publicly known because the media reported it.
I believe that the churches who subsequently called Mr. Gilyard were also aware of his background which would lay some blame at their feet.
It is a shame that Mr. Gilyard was not dealt with by his church and it is a shame that the other churches chose to turn a blind eye to his problem because it appears that it has escalated to solicitation of minors.
So what seems to have started as acts of adultery with consenting adult females,WHICH IS SIN, has indeed become a larger problem, but the blame can not be laid solely at the feet of Dr. Patterson.
It would appear that of the people in religious circles who embraced Mr. Gilyard as a "religious poster child," Dr. Patterson was the one who publicly spoke out against his actions and censured him the most.
Within the realm of their relationship, expulsion from Criswell would have been the only authority that Dr. Patterson would have had over Mr. Gilyard. The fact that he would go to that church and moderate the business meeting would have been going the second mile.
I know that you know, I am definitely not a fan of Paige and Dorothy Patterson. I feel that Dr. Patterson directly influenced the situation at SEBTS that led to CB being unjustly fired, which caused a lot of problems and heartache for our family. (Although, as scriptures says "what some meant for evil, God has used for good," and I am thankful to no longer be at SEBTS. God has blessed in our lives and our ministry. We also have been given the opportunity to make a difference in the lives of four children.) But I have to be honest in this situation and say that Dr. Patterson was not completely at fault in the Gilyard situation.
Karen Scott
9:05 PM
Karen: I respect you as much as I do your husband. Which is a lot. More could have been done without saying I didn't have the resources, I am not an investigator or judge. If I had the power of the college presidency, I would have stuck my neck out to stop this man. Going to the front of churches if I had to. Anything. It looks as if Paige's reputation was more important. That may not be the case, but it looks that way to me. Contrary to what is believed I am not a Paige Patterson hater. I wanted Paige to stay where he was and make some changes. I advocated for that strongly at the beginning of all of this. Frankly however, people are more important to me than whose in power.
Our churches, our schools of all the churches and schools in the world should be safe from this kind of thing. We supposedly have the true doctrine according to many, correct? Why would I want my daughters to go to any seminary SB or church? We are so proud of being SB and the SBC. My question is why? Look at the scandals concerning sex and abuse that have surfaced from among our own? I'm not sure Paige or the churches can claim innocence on this. We certainly can't claim church autonomy. Most of the women were victims, they were not all willing participants and these women deserve closure and justice.
8:56 AM
I don't see how accepting a $307,000 piece of land "for love and affection" only TWO WEEKS after taking the pastor position is any different than accepting "sexual favors" from a member. In BOTH cases, the pastor takes advantage of the honor and respect of the POSITION of pastor to TAKE from a loving, trusting member.
Both Gilyard and Mac Brunson are GUILTY of taking advantage of their congregations. One took sex, one took money. Some take both. Satan knows each man's weakness.
Where there is no accountability, abuses run rampant. Either sex or money..Satan never has anything new. Both had to feel good. I dare say seeing a member sign over the deed to a $307,000 piece of land might even feel better than any sexual act. They both should resign! Gilyard did only after the press got wind of his acts. When will Mac?
6:01 PM
Hello everyone I want to tell you that I have read most of the posts here with utmost prayer and thought. I am really not familiar with this case but I do feel for the victims. I find it amazing that so many people in today's society are unaware of sexual abuse within all religions. I was sexually assulted by a Southern Baptist Minister 40 years ago that's right 40. I did find out later I was not the only one. At the time the police said that they would not persue the situation because who would the public believe. Years later I went to a Southern Baptist Convention in Florida At one point I noticed a group of pastors standing under a walk way laughing amongst themselves I also observed a group of woman watching the men and giggling amongst themselves. Closer observation of the men showed that they were standing under the walkway waiting for young woman to walk across so they could look up their dresses. The woman were amused at the men and what they were doing. I brought this to the attention of the Pastors wife I was with her response was I had better not catch my husband here. Now not to take away from rapes and sexual misconduct and child abuse but thinking here for this situation who was doing wrong. Later years found me working as a secretary in a Methodist church and every Sunday the minister would come into the office were the elders were counting the collection and fill his pockets with the loose change and bills from the collection plate we all seen him do it and again said nothing. Satan hides in dark places these Pastors and Ministers see nothing wrong with what they are doing until the light is shined on them and they are caught. A few years ago a woman started coming to my house (J. Witness) and she brought up the fact that I was Catholic and the point of all the priests that were in trouble with the church. I tried to explain to her that that a sin is a sin and it happens in all religions because people tend to put Men in God's spot and Men or woman for that matter tend to let things go to their heads and put themselves above God. She said Not in my church our elders report straight to God. I retorted that so do all the other elders of all these other religions. The next week she showed up with one of her elders he was insistant that I need to go to a Bible Study with my friend I told him that my husband would not approve of that situation. He suggested that I tell him I was going shopping or calling on a sick friend. I asked so you want me to lie to my husband? I never saw the woman or her pastor again. Again here who was wrong the day is close at hand for the Return of our Savior Jesus Christ (My best friend) He comands that we love one another as he has loved us. We have to Love the victims but we also have to love the preditors This day and age shows the church's and religious party's closer to politics than ever before. "I did not have sex with that woman" It is time we put aside our differences and shine the light that is within us on all to see. Pastors need to rethink why they wanted to be in the position they are in and if their answer is NOT to give Glory to God then they all need to resign. If their answer is for the Glory of God then they need to make drastic changes in their life and remember thier job is 24/7 not a 9 to 5er Sorry for going off here but this article is just one little flashlight shinging when a big spot light is coming to shine on the whole world. I don't have an Identity code because I usually don't post here so I will sign here A Miller Pinellas County FL
5:51 AM
Did any or all of those claiming to be victims of sexual assault file criminal charges?
Unless they did, or were willing to, it would be difficult to act decisively on their claims.
I haven't read everything on this, but I know Gilyard went through several years of restoration steps with Patterson, Vines and Falwell before landing the Jacksonville church.
It was last year before Falwell allowed him in the Thomas Road pulpit.
CB Scott and Jerry Gerber both need to refrain from writing harsh personal words. Sometimes words from our mouths are hard to harness in the heat of the moment, but those typed by our hands should be subject to self-control. Unless you can type faster than you can talk.
:)
9:02 AM
Chuck,
I stand by every word I said here including these; You do not know of what you speak.
cb
1:49 PM
cb scott - you seem to be very opinionated on these kinds of matters. What say ye about Mac Brunson accepting a $307,000 gift from a member only two weeks after he arrived? And don't say its not any of my business since it was a personal gift. How do you know that. Wouldn't common sense say no man would give another such a gift only two weeks after the pastor arrived. Perhaps it was part of the enticement for him to come? But if so, why not disclose that. Wouldn't that reflect on his motives for coming? He admitted he had told the committee "no" to their offer. Maybe this swung him, or his wife? Or if it is a blessing from the Lord, wouldn't he give praise and thanks to the Lord from the pulpit? He has never acknowledged such a gift? Either way, it makes me question his integrity and motives as a preacher. Many lost people think preachers are only in it for the money. This makes it difficult for mac to ever claim his motives are pure.
And C.B.- what do you think about by-law changes that are not freely distributed or discussed prior to a vote on them? What about if they gave the pastor more power to appoint committee members and more authority in spending matters and formed a discipline committee. Would this be a new pastor you could love, respect, and follow?
4:26 PM
C.B - any thoughts on nepotism? If a pastor hires his wife and son to full time, salaried positions, shouldn't their job titles and duties at least be known, or listed on the web site like every other staff member? Or would arrogance say "I don't need to explain anything to anybody."
What about a 6 bedroom, 4.5 bath mansion on the golf course in a gated community after only one year on the job? Is that the message the baptist preacher is trying to send to the community?
Why discuss this in this thread? Because mega-church pastors, including Gilyard and Brunson, are able to abuse people because no one holds them accountable. As Southern Baptists, with autonomous churches, we rely on the congregations to police the pastors, not a church heirarchy. But when they surround themselves with yes men, they are being put in a position to give in to their sinful flesh. Some abuse members to get sexual favors. Others take advantage of congregants to get money. What do you suggest we do about it. Leaving and going to another church won't help. Confronting the pastor won't help. ????
4:32 PM
Brunson, to this day, continues his abusive ways at FBC Jacksonville, while being paid a king's ransom. He turns a blind eye to the truth and exploits a church that was once great; he and his advertising group and trustees have turned it in to a den iniquities. He would not report a predator such as Gilyard, if it brought a negative light to himself.
Brunson is a PP wanna be and is just biding his time until he can take FBCJ for everything he can, and then run to PP for another position.
His wife, Debbie, of course, was approved for the IMB through the personal influence of PP. Enough said.
Thanks big dady weave for allowing my post. Blessings.
6:27 PM
No matter what happens in the future, this blog will serve its' purpose in exposing predators,whether physical or from the pulpit; both equally abhorrent!
6:32 PM
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